Not going to happen.

Actually Joanne I don't know where you are getting the $50 - $60 thousands from. The assessors use an outside vendor that they work with, they cannot fudge the numbers and they cannot assess the value higher to make it look good, it's illegal. Come to town meeting and listen to what is being presented, and if you have any questions regarding that information as a resident you have the right during "debate" to ask those questions.

What are you talking about? The South fire station is opened last fall and is in full service for the community. Wasting money on what? The firemen that man the south station or are we wasting money on public safety?
I don't get it?

Melissa, I don't see where anyone is "dismissing" the abutter's concerns. Are you a realtor? The value is determined by a prospective buyer? So basically what you're saying is that the Fair Market Value analysis and the assessors valuation are not valid? Really?

Maria,
No I am not and yes really; have you no understanding of basic economics, the buyer always determines value. I do not care what an assessor's opinion is as to value. If people do not want to be on a busy street, the house sells for less, if there is a huge fire station wth five bays across the street and lights people may not want to pay as much.

Since I am facing the devaluation of my home and neighborhood, it is very personal. I have been reading a lot and talking to many. Consensus is that the average person will not buy a home close to a fire station. The house will be on the market for very much longer, and if it sells, you will not get what it is worth- even in our slow housing market. I have a problem with our town leaders closing their eyes to this fact and acting as if nothing will change. Does the town really have the right to devalue homes, property, and neighborhood? I really feel squeezed, ignored, and stepped on. We are taking the hit for past town mistakes.

Melissa, the buyer only determines value when there is actually a property for sale and a buyer ready to buy. In the absence of such determinative information, a determination by the Assessor's office is more reliable than a broker's opinion, which is not subject to any specified criteria (unlike a determination by an assessor or appraiser). My point is not to diminish the abutters' concerns, nor to dismiss them out of hand. I simply wanted to address the point of the reliability of assessor's estimation of value vis-a-vis a broker's estimation.

The South Fire Station is at 295 Acton Road.

Mike, that ballot question with the past election basically asked if people would be willing to pay for the station if it didn't need a prop. 2 1/2 override. It never said that the station was going to be up on the hill attached to the town hall, or how big it was going to be. The question may have passed, but no one really knew the impact of that vote. The vote passed the money NOT THE STATION.
Now I will ask you what I asked the Selectman last night. Would you be interested in buying one of our homes across from the fire station if it is built?

Didn't you have notice prior to the election? If someone in my neighborhood is going to cut down a tree or build a deck, I get a notice of a public input session. I'd be surprised if your neighborhood didn't receive something about the fire station proposal.

In any case, what alternative do you think we have?

(About buying your home: Maybe we can trade. I bought mine next to a neighborhood school that was closed. We sacrificed a lot, including closing a fire station, to rebuild the rainy day fund. But don't get me started.)

I'm trying to answer your next post, but there was no reply button. Actually the notice was never posted, secondly it was sent to only a handful of abutters (I was in the hospital with my husband by my side), not the rest of the neighbors who will be affected, and NOT to the Prec. Reps.. We had the election which asked about how to pay for the station, not where or how big. They were hearing "adjacent" to the town hall. What is adjacet? We thought they were talking about behind the town hall. No one here really knew until one of the neighbors, who lives only a coupe of houses away, and is not an abutter, happened to go to the town hall and saw what none of us knew.
I think the responsible thing is to delay the vote for a few weeks and revisit Wilson Street with the same uses in the town hall as they are now planning. To my knowledge a traffic study hasn't even been done yet. We need more time to for input from our neighbors.

You know Tony, Mr. Cohen told me how everything was going to be mitigated- noise, light, traffic....But if I can hear and see people leaving the town hall at 9 or 10 pm at night, I am still going to hear and see what's happening at the fire station right next to it. We had an opportunity to go to Ayer a few nights ago. We were surprised at their big new 5-bay station. I lit up Main St. almost to where we were having dinner. When we left at 9pm, we drove in front and found all5 bays wide open with the biggest, brightest, whitest lights I have ever seen. Not outside light- internal. It was lit up like Fenway Park. In the summer when the temp gets very hot on a summer night, you wouldn't blame them for opening all those doors for some fresh air. But tony, those lights will not be shining in your windows, they will shining in mine and my neighbors. I have no idea where you live, you may have a small 2-bay station near your neighborhood. But this is NO 2-bay station. Attached to the town hall, it will run over 250' across the parking lot the the guard rail on the right and past. Someone on this board said something to the effect that there was already so much going on here on Billerica Road, that what did it matter? But it DOES matter!! We are trying very hard to save the very last part of Billerica Road that is still a residential area. I don't see the other beautiful roads in Chelmsford taking the hits that we have for the past 30 years.

The meeting was not posted and the Reps were not invited to the small meeting of a few neighbors. They were left out of the loop to talk for us.

I agree with you on this, Joanne. Reps should have known about the issue; it's part of what they sign up for when they run. But they should have been invited to the meeting so they could hear first hand feedback from the neighbors. Also, I'm not sure which neighbors were invited and what notice they had. It sounds like not enough was done to notify people.

Mark ,
If the town took the land I still think they would have to pay the value to the owner. Any idea what that would cost? Never mind the legal battle that would ensue and we would also have to pay for. Seems like a money pit at best.

Mark- the access is needed for the bank's drive thru lanes, internal circulation and would complicate the turning movements on Fletcher Street. Yes, it was closed off during construction on North Road but that was only temporary. This access is signalized which makes it safer than the Fletcher St. and also provides access to the rear of the existing fire station.

Paul, I have been a residential taxpayer for many years and I have done extensive homework regarding the latest proposal. I have discussed the proposal, its projected cost, and feasibility with other town administrators and fire chiefs in both Massachusetts and New Hampshire who have had new stations built in the last 10 years. As a former firefighter who was involved in a central station build and current homeowner/taxpayer, I was very interested in where and how Chelmsford's new station would be built and the viability of cost projections. I have been to planning and information sessions and I have made it a point to be an informed citizen before I voted in the last election. I also live close to one of the substations and am glad that I do. I talked to my own insurance company and they confirmed that proximity to a station is considered in my policy. You don't have to be "directly involved" to know what the facts are. And based on those facts I find them more than adequate to say move on and get this thing done. Tony

@Paul Creme - ( "please correct me if I am wrong, but the location was not what was voted upon, it was the method of payment" )

Sorry Paul, you are wrong :)
BALLOT QUESTION:
QUESTION 1 (Advisory): Shall the Town of Chelmsford pay the debt service for a new center fire station adjacent to the Town Offices from the existing property tax levy? {This fire station would not be financed by a Proposition 2 ½ debt exclusion.}

Mr. Early,
Don't you think the term "adjacent" was more than a little ambiguous? The question didn't ask us if we would want a huge 5-bay fire station up on top of the parking lot "attached" to the town hall. Was the question left ambiguous for a reason? It seemed like one day the talk was for Wilson St., then we understood that it would be behind the town hall, then all of a sudden it was on top of the hill spreading across the full length of the parking lot. I feel cheated and overlooked by the town leaders.

Mark,
All I know is that if you take land you have to pay its fair value and have a good reason. I am not a fan of eminent domain so when you said "How about taking the egress on North road by eminent domain and expanding on the existing footprint?"
It adds a whole new layer to a complex situation. the only two sites are Wilson Street and the current site. Wilson Street has been voted down twice and is open space so the only other site is the baseball fields and that will never happen. so come town meeting they will decide. I am not 100% happy with the design but it is what it is and I will lobby my TM Reps and wait for town meeting to see what happens.

Period! Indeed, method of payment was the big issue ... a new station, its location and cost approval were not the issues to be voted upon. I am in complete sympathy with the abutters and for the life of me cannot see how in God's name a big fire station will fit in the location specified and I still think Wilson was the best place, even tho I was enamored with the ice skating last winter ... help me to understand, please, how big decisions like this can be made without full town approval.

I have never intimated that everyone's uninformed. And I never said it's done. What I did say was let's get it done and I indicated why I think it should be approved. I would only point you to Roy Earley's comment above that has the question as it appeared on the ballot. It clearly calls for approval of a new fire station to be funded by non-exclusionary debt funds.

And the ballot question also stated that the station would be built next to the Town Hall. I believe that it is splitting hairs to say that it was a vote only for location, or for funding method, or did not include the question "should we build the station." It included all three and the majority of voters voted accordingly.

The ballot question said "adjacent", not next to. Adjacent could have meant behind. Not trying to split hairs, but the ballot question was ambiguous to many.

Joanne, If voters didn't know that "adjacent" was "next to" the town hall, then where have they been since the proposal was made public? There have been live presentations, proposal and support information posted in the town's database, pictures published in the local newspapers, pictures and information on Patch, information sessions with the building committee and Fire Chief, central fire station tours, etc. which clearly show the conceptual location "adjacent" to the town hall not in back of it, not on top of it, not below it, and certainly not in it except for a few office spaces. If after all the information that was released to the public you tell me that the ballot was "ambiguous to many, I would question if the "many" even made a cursory attempt to understand what was being proposed. If you paid a modicum of attention to the information that was clearly out there, how could you not know?

Melissa, I was on the original study committee that recommended Wilson St.. After presenting our proposal to the selectman and public we were met with a tremendous amount of resistance from people that were upset that it was going to take open space. After the first vote failed the cost estimates were reduced, which resulted in another failed vote. It is my opinion that it was the location that people didn't like. "Preserve open space" was the mantra heard.

Open Space is an issue. With an option to use a parking lot and not take open space I would have to side with the non Wilson Street plan before the TM. I supported Wilson Street the first two times BUT this new option would be in about the same place AND we would not lose and open space in the center of town. do I think its a better location and design ? No BUT the fact we keep open space and that the first two times we got a NO and we have a workable plan on the table pushes this option to a YES for me.

;-)

Kathleen, It has been stated hundreds of times over the last 5 years why a central station is needed. It houses specialized equipment that can be sent to any part of town within an acceptable response time.

Kathleen, I live directly next to the south station on Acton Rd. My house to the fire station is 55'(building to building). I dare say that no one on Billerica Rd will be twice as close as that. They have been nothing but good neighbors in the seven years I have lived here. All the stations in town are in a residential area, even the existing center station has people living a few doors down. I could be wrong but I have never heard of any complaints of any neighbors regarding any of the stations. As far as property values, when I originally bought my house and when I did a refinance there was never a decrease in the valuation because of the fire station. I asked and got the same answer from different appraisers 3 years apart.

Paul, we're talking apples and oranges here. Yours and the other neighborhood fire stations are 2-bays. Quite a big difference between those and the 250 ft monster comprised of town hall and 5-bays on Billerica Rd.

Sounds like the best idea yet.
Folks need to have a choice of where and how much to vote properly!!

....and it had such potential, but with these clowns running it????

Seems reasonable - I've spoken to various town reps (in and out of my precinct) and learned that some vote only what they want - because most people don't understand the issues. Of the people that do vote, they should be heard. Those that don't want to get involved don't need to, certainly, but their town rep should not have the final say for their precinct, either. Is there a way to improve the process? Again, let's think differently if tax payers are not happy. After all, we pay the bills and salaries and deserve that. What is the latest thinking on this subject?

Were you not around last year during the 9 North Road debate. The BOS was split on that and at least one selectman was opposed to the TM's position

Of the five selectmen, Sean Scanlon resigned and Eric Dahlberg recused himself because he had taken money from Philip Eliopoulos. That left three to vote. George Dixon and Matt Hanson voted not to go to court, and only Jon Kurland was opposed.

I know both George Dixson and Jim Murray went and look at the stations RVL talked about. They talked about what they found at the debates.

With all due respect Lucy, that was asked and answered already.