Right at the top of this article the election we just had was mentioned. But the statement wasn't correct. The ballot question didn't ask for support about where or what a fire station should be like, it only asked how we would be willing to pay for it! Greatly misleading the public!

I was at the meeting and my takeaways were as follows:

We need a new fire station
We still don't know what it will cost (so it would be irresponsible to approve at this point)
This is not the preferred/ideal location (the fire chief and town manager admitted so)

New Town Rep who attended the meeting. Excellent presentation, with convincing financial and location comparative analyses. Estimated costs, of any project, are "best estimates," based upon competitive bids obtained. The Town, and taxpayers, should mandate a 5% uptake margin over any submitted bids. This would avoid a "Big Dig" scenario.

Addressing adjacent neighbor's concerns: Create an "Evening Protocol," whereby inside station alarms are modified and add'l visual alert mechanisms are added, to minimize sound transmission. No need for flashing lights or sirens, unless circumstances dictate otherwise, and "soft-return" (head-in parking/outside bay) would significantly minimize noise factor during evening hours.

I respect the time, effort, thought and debate that our Town officials and concerned citizens have devoted to this important issue for the past 5 years. Throughout this period, our firefighters have struggled to protect our lives
and personal property. Unless a profoundly better location emerges, very soon, representing the same cost and proximity to Town center, I support the present plan.

Why does everyone miss the obvious things? This proposal is awful. I am shocked that some are so pleased with this. What a joke.

Has anyone ever been to a fire station in the city? Look how close the doors are to the road. They are even closer, and they don't wash their trucks in the bays. They wash them at an off site location. This is an agenda item for our town manager and he is failing us once again. Please town meeting reps vote NO!

Before voting on anything, I agree that town officials need to visit places and compare options. RVL suggested several towns that have renovated, very successfully, at lesser costs. Has anyone gone to see those fire stations yet? (This is not a rhetorical question, I would like to know). If someone would answer that, I would appreciate it. Also, having worked in business in the past, I know that costs can always be negotiated down without ruining the integrity of what is needed for our brave fire fighters. More work needs to be done by those that really know and understand what is needed. How about our fire dept. employees visit other places or have they done that? They deserve a safe and efficient fire station, but if we can cut millions off the cost, why not do it? It's a lot of work, but that is what our town officials are supposed to do - keep thinking about how to lower costs and get what we need. Taxes are way too high already so why aren't we thinking of how to lower costs, just like the salaries of most people have been lowered? I don't understand why this isn't the first consideration. Also, location, in my opinion, should stay where it is. If a mess has been created because land was sold, then someone has to figure out how to fix it. If you make a mistake, no big deal, just fix it.
Respectfully submitted, Lucy, Precinct 4

You're right, Lucy, it's a lot of work. But don't forget that Pat Maloney, who has been working on this for a long time and chairs the committee, is a volunteer. Fire department employees aren't architects or builders.

George Dixon and others have visited the stations in the newsletters, or at least offered up reasons why they aren't apples-to-apples comparisons. I think if you search you'll find some of that here in the Patch.

Do we need all the options in this station? Maybe not everything. But would forcing the firemen to wash trucks at a different site really make a big dent in the cost? I doubt it.

We used to say in software: You can always make the program smaller and there's always one more bug. Thus, every program can be reduced to one line that fails.

The land to expand in place is gone, voters didn't like Wilson street, and I think that we're out of other options.

Joanne

Where were you, over the past two years, while residents of "my" neighborhood joined a 10 year fight againy the ENEL Corp., a foreign hydroelectric power company that has destroyed our river front adjacent to our homes, threatened to destroy our sewer line, which would have raw sewage flowing into the Merrimack River, and has caused our flood insurance rates

..to skyrocket! Fire station looks good to me, in contrast to what I'n dealing with I'n my neighborhood. No solution is perfect, unless you are willing to through unlimited funds at the project, which no one is willing to do.

My property value has already significantly dropped. Living across from a fire station would be an improvement!

The series of bad decisions over the years are ruining this town! The Fire Station is in a perfect location. The only other good location might be near the police station. Take the office building that's there! We have too many as it is!

My property is abutting Chelmsford Crossing. When the building was first presented many were concerned about sirens lights etc. I can tell you the police, fire and Trinity have all been respectful of the neighborhood. I have never been disturbed or awoken by any of the safety vehicles entering the parking areas on a regular basis.

While I did support the Wilson Street proposal, the majority of voters didn't. Many were the abutters with similar concerns. That option is not available and this one has been approved. Its time to move forward.

The priority here, after more than 5 years of investigation, exploration, multi-constituent brainstorming and defeated former proposals should be on our fire fighters, their working conditions and state of the art equipment and apparatus necessary for them to react most effectively to any number of emergency situations. We can continue to talk this issue to death, or we are now in a position to move this issue forward, with the proper contingencies in place to accommodate all reasonable concerns. Right now, Chelmsford lacks the emergency services capability that a town our size requires. We cannot afford to table this issue again.

I also applaud all the effort put into the planning for a new station! The suggested use of current Town Hall office space is very cost effective. I made the suggestion last night that they use the Town Hall space and build the station at route 110 Wilson St. Route 110 is commercially zoned where Billerica Rd is residentially zoned. The excavation at Billerica Road is going to be extensive to make the site street level. This is not the case at 110. The girl ball field could potentially be relocated to behind the Town Hall. I do appreciate all the work everyone has put into fixing up the current field and the town should provide a reasonable alternative. I understand the concerns of the seniors on Wilson Street, however, the station would potentially block some of the lights and sounds currently coming from 110. I would hope we as a town can come up with the most cost effective and acceptable resolution to this matter. We need a station!

I drove by the Arlington Fire Station today and I can tell you with a brief look, it is a far better building with more durable brick than our center Fire Station. Does not mean I like the new plan. I'm still going with my original plan to fill the lower section with concrete: $120/yard (?).

I keep reading that the "people of Chelmsford voted down a fire station on Wilson Street." Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Wilson Street proposal that was rejected by the people of the town involve a Proposition 2 1/2 debt exclusion? And isn't the fact that we can now construct this station without an override the MAIN selling point behind this new fire station. The town needs a new fire station, I agree wholeheartedly with that, and I believe it's priority one right now. Why don't we have the option to vote on an either/or scenario of the current proposal vs. a free-standing building on the Wilson Street parcel? If cost is an issue, can't Fire Administration offices still be located in the vacant space in Town Hall (which is literally right next door)?

Those comparing construction costs vs Pelham/other towns need to realize that cost is not a constant and NO two jobs are identical. You cannot compare material/labor cost of last month to costs right now, let alone in another state (FYI: Pelham also operates their own Ambulance, a revenue-generating service the people of Chelmsford voted against). ALOT of construction materials are petroleum based, with suppliers CONSTANTLY raising prices. Also, MA requires buildings such as this to be done at a Union Rate. So while you or I could get the same job completed for $3-4 million that's competitively bid, the town is operating under different rules. Time is ticking and the price is only going up...

koskf

I find it very disturbing that the neighbors to the town hall feel that a fire station will disrupt the community, interfere with sleep and ruin the beauty of the neighborhood.
4 out of 5 stations are in fact in residential neighborhoods. I would like to see the stats of how many complaints have been lodged against an existing station. On a more personal note I live on Acton Rd, directly abutting the Fire Station. When I say "directly " abutting I mean the station is approx 55' from our bedroom. In the 7 yrs I have lived in my house I can't remember a single time that I regret living next to the station. The fire fighters are very mindful that they are in a residential neighborhood when leaving and returning to the station. It is to the point now that most if the time I don't even realize they are exiting. There are no loud bells or buzzers, no sirens blaring and horns blasting. Believe me if that were the case not only would I complain but I'm sure my neighbors would also. Some of them have been here almost as long as the station has. To address ruining the beauty of the neighborhood, nothing could be further from the truth. The station is extremely clean inside and out. The fire fighters are constantly working on the grounds. I couldn't ask for better neighbors. To those who think a station doesn't belong in a residential neighborhood really need to get over the " not in my back yard" mentality. They are in my" back yard " and I couldn't ask for better neighbors!

Dave..the people of this town were never willing to "go through unlimited funds" for the schools OR a Library, it's unlikely they would do so for a Fire Station. As for property values, whose property value hasn't gone down? I live fairly close to the present station, and I can say that noise has NEVER been a problem, the firefighters seem to be VERY conscious of those who live close by. I guess this situation is like Water and Cell Phone towers....no one wants to give up their cell phones, but no one wants the towers in THEIR back yards either. The firefighters in this town, who live and work to PROTECT us, the citizens of Chelmsford, DESERVE a SAFE, working environment, and we need to make THEIR SAFETY our number one priority. The longer we fight over location, costs and every other thing we can think of, the more chance there is that one of our own is going to be injured.... think about how much THAT would cost the town. I've lived in this town almost 40 years, and I can assure you, it's USUALLY pointless to fight that which is going to happen anyway. You may delay it, but you won't stop it.

Mike...the Eliopoulas clan bought not only the LAND adjacent to the present station, but they bought the bank as well. Woulnd't it be a feather in their caps if they could buy the old fire station building next? then, they could have a simply GRAND entrance into their palace. No doubt, they will be given first option to buy it at a GREAT price, and rather than find a useful purpose for the building (as we did with the old police station), we'll be told that we were lucky to find someone who was willing to "take it off our hands"....

Too many opinions at this late stage of the process. The central station issue has been vetted over the last few years and we know that there is no "perfect" solution. The bottom line is that a new central station is critical to the town's fire protection service and we have a site that supports a reasonable building proposal. We recently elected town officials/town representatives who will have the responsibility to decide what needs to done in the best interest of the town. That's how representative government works. If voters didn't want the station then they would have voted for the alternate candidates and shot the funding question down. They didn't. They sent a clear message to TMRs. So it's now time to move this issue to Town Meeting for a decision.

This is a test comment that will not appear on the site; I have no permissions and am a regular end-user.

I think you are all missing an OBVIOUS point.... It's a fire station and it's a necessity. This country is to full of people who only care about themselves. MY property will depreciate, MY sleep will be messed up, MY life wont be the same. all I hear is ME, ME, ME. What about what is right for your entire town? When you have a heart attack or fire in the middle of the night, you will be thankful they are right there. I live by a fire station, right behind it in fact and it isn't a problem at all.

Mike: At some point, the Elipoulas family purchased not only the LAND adjacent to the present Fire Station, but ALSO the bank. This means they now own the WHOLE corner, WITH the exception of the present Fire Station. How long do you suppose it will take the powers to be to tell us that the present Firehouse, unlike the old Police Station, can NOT be put to any good use? At this point, no doubt we will learn that the Eliopoulas family would like to buy it (probably at a BARGAIN price), tear it down and build a VERY grand entrance to their VERY grand palace? As soon as the drive-thru to the bank, (and probably Eastern Bank as well) along with it's Silo is torn down, we will no doubt be told that we were "VERY lucky" that someone was willing to "take it off our hands"...

masslandrecords.com North Middlesex County

The only reason we have a NIMBY (not in my back yard) problem is that when then-Selectman Phillip Eliopoulos secretly negotiated to buy the land next to the center fire station, he closed off any chance we had of expanding in-place. Now the only choices remaining force new traffic or noise problems upon us.

I don't blame neighbors for being upset with this solution, but at this point I don't think we have any other options. We need a new fire station before the existing one is condemned as unsafe to occupy. That could happen any time now.

Combs- you're back to the same discussion you started a year ago. Talk about a vicious circle-jeez.

@Donna- and your point is?

Peter..My point IS, if I MUST have one.......is simple.... The Dutton House I can live with.......as I'm SURE you know, MANY of us in town are NOT in love with the "changes" that we had no control over. When I sit on the Common in the summertime to listen to concerts, or sit along the Parade route, or simply walk along North Road, I don't want to be "gazing" upon concrete driveways and brick pillars, (with an infrastructure right behind it)...........UNLESS it's in the form of OUR old, un-occupied Fire Station.

My suggestions would save the town money. Isnt that what we all can agree on? I do not want to point fingers at anyone. That gets us nowhere. We will save money going to Wilson street and using the office space at town hall and Wilson St is the location that was preferred in the study the town did. It is also the preferred site according to the fire chief. Do the town meeting reps care about what is BEST for the fire department? They would have drive through bays there. The vote was for money not location. Also the warrant article asks if it is okay to place the station on the acreage adjacent to the town hall. This could include any part of that land all they way over to wilson street.

I would prefer leaving the past in the past. The town had ample opportunity to purchase the land behind the fire station. They didn't. Get past it!

The town voted down the money. That was a debt exclusion.

Every person I have spoken with did not vote it down based on location.

@Combs, Oh I see, it's my fault the fireman are working in an all but condemned building. Keep beating it with that stick.

Peter..I havn't yet seen anyone blaming YOU because our firefighters are working in a building that is very close to being condemned...perhaps you are a little too close to the "situation" to be objective...though I guess that could be said for ALL of us..
Graham......as a customer of Eastern Bank, while sitting in the drive-up lane, I started noticing cars entering the bank parking lot THROUGH the "Exit" drive on Fletcher Street. I mentioned it to the teller, and 2 weeks later, noticed the EXIT plaques had been taken out of the mortar. HHHmmm..I wondered WHY would Eastern Bank put it's own customers at risk, for the convenience of the owners of 9 North Rd??? So I did some research. The answer? they WOULND'T..it was no longer up to them.

Hi all: please keep conversation to the original topic at hand here. Thanks.

Who are you Donna? And what hole did you crawl out of? First, You state in this thread that our family has purchased the Eastern Bank property and now you are stating that we some how ordered the bank to remove the signs. You must be drinking the Combs kool-aid. Throw some off the wall opinion out there and see what sticks. Get real!

Talk about holes Peter??? Anyone whose been a customer of that bank building for as many YEARS as I have, KNOWS you enter the one-way drive from NORTH Rd, and you EXIT the-one way drive onto FLETCHER. As SOON as 9 North Rd. opened for business, cars started ENTERING thru the EXIT DRIVE OF THE BANK, and followed the BANK'S ONE WAY drive DIRECTLY into 9 No. Rd. Two weeks after I asked the teller about it, the EXIT PLAQUES WERE REMOVED from the brick pillars on Fletcher St. Don't talk to me about "crawling out of holes".............as for who I am??? I'm a TAX-PAYER !

Donna, During your "research" of the bank exits, did you realize that North Road has been under construction and limited to one lane for many months during the day? Did you also realize the police duty was directing traffic through the bank entrance/ exit to alleviate the traffic flow. I think you need to do some more research because you just don't have any idea what you are talking about.

By the way, Donna, we are all taxpayers. Your comment wasn't too original now was it?

The town screwed us all again, get over it people!!!

Donna wrote: "I wondered WHY would Eastern Bank put it's own customers at risk, ... So I did some research. The answer? they WOULND'T..it was no longer up to them."

Could you tell us who you talked with and who made this decision? If you have new information, please be precise.

All this back and fro about 9 North does not really help the current issue the new fire station. The current station should stand on its own merits and be voted up or voted down on that. The north road property was sold by the town a long time ago and then resold to the current owners. The question about its sale was part of the recent recall election and residents spoke. Its time to put this behind and focus on the current issue of is it a good plan for a fire station or not. Let’s not fill the discussion with a bunch of could or should but just look at the facts. If Town reps feel that they like the plan or are not fully happy with it but cannot see a better choice then they should vote yes. If they dislike the plan vote no. The issue should not be about a long passed opportunity but about what is good and bad about the current one next to town hall. North Road is gone, Wilson street has been voted down now it’s time to look hard at this plan. We need a new station and I am not 100% happy with the new plans but it’s by far the best of the opportunities on the table. So I would like to hear more about the pros and cons of the station. Maybe someone would say something that would make me rethink.

Well said, Phil. Thank you.

Phil,

With all due respect, the past does influence people's perceptions. And for those who point to the vote, a margin of less than 300 votes is hardly overwhelming. As for the comment that the people have spoken, and thus the town reps must approve. Please correct me if I am wrong, but one precinct voted no, does that mean all 18 town reps in that precinct vote against the new station. Also, do the town meeting reps have to vote in proportion to the vote. I still struggle with why 5 bays are needed, and why the additonal size is needed, I also question $1,600,000 in "soft costs". Also, I would rather see the property sold and at least recoup some of the cost.

Joanne, what difference does it make how many bays? The point I am making is there is no one that will be living closer to a station than my family. Whether there are 2 bays or 5the the issues you are worried about are the same. And I can tell you that your concerns are unfounded.

I meant the property that the old station currently occupies. Also Phil E. I would think by now you would learn that you will not change people's opinion of what you did. I would think it may be better to just not respond. What is done is done. No use rehashing the issues.

Paul , If you read what I posted it does not refer to the vote on the fire station that just passed. As for the Bays people do not count the fact the station has 2 behind that can no longer be used and were designed back when the station was built. the new station should have at least 4 to match the current station and you would have to assume with he increase in the town since the old station was built going from 4 to 5 it understandable. As for selling the old station land I would be 100% against that. the town should NOW or EVER sell any land it owns in the town center. that was done with North Road and was a HUGE mistake. Town Rep should vote the way they feel and if people feel they did not support their intent on the fires station funding question then they should vote for a different TM Rep next time. again my point was to stick to the issues on this station and if the plan is good or bad.

Paul,

The current station has five bays, unfortunately two are being used to support the flooring. You can see this on some of the presentations that have run on Chelmsford telemedia.

This proposal is actually modest as compared to other towns with similar needs.

thanks for the correction Jeff.

Jeff and Phil,

What correction. I am well aware of the fact that two bays are unusable; thus the question,why are 5 needed now. Why does the size have to increase by a factor of more that two. We have other stations that were not around when the current location came on line in 1952. The town has not grown much in the past 10 years and will probably not grow much in the near future. I was not refering to the recall, like anyone with an agenda, Phil you read what you wanted. I said after the first sentence which addressed the past, "as for those..". Finally, I am not in favor of another empty building in town. The mistake with the sale of the north road property in the past was the poorly worded restriction, not the sale. I have read everything and have followed this from the beginning, I remain unconvinced that the station needs to be this size and cost this much. As far as why it has taken this long, I can only point to the people in charge all this time.

Paul yes I have and agenda.
1) Have people look at the new fire station and evaluate it on its own merits.
2) Support the CFD to get a safe station and protect the investment in equipment.
3) Have the town NEVER sell any land it owns in the town center area EVER.

.

I am looking at the lay out of the 5 bays in the presentation and the equipment. What equipment do people think should be stored elsewhere or they do not think is needed and where it should be stored? I look it over and I can't think of equipment that can move but I ask the question maybe some is not needed?

Phil,
We can respectively disagree I remain unconvinced that the magnitude and cost are warranted. I have no problem with the need for a new station. I also respect your position as to open land, but the property where to old station is located will not be best used as empty or with the Dutton House being moved there, in my opinion. It would be nice to recoup some of the expense of the new station.

@Phil, I believe we need the five bay station. I also still believe WilsonSt is the right location. It is in a commercially zoned area. It also allows for future expansion. It allows for drive through bays. They can use the office space at TH. Therefore, the price can be less than the second proposal. Also it will take more money to prep the TH site. Do you have any response to this? The question on the ballot was about the money. Obviously the town wants to pay that much. The vote on the warrant I believe states the 6?acres adjacent to TH which I wouls guess includes WilsonSt. Can you explain this to me? I am an abutter at Billerica Rd and I have questions about this plan. Thank you

http://eminentdomain.uslegal.com/state-laws-on-eminent-domain/massachusetts/

Just saying ...

So I guess my overall feeling about this proposal is this:
Unforeseen costs in excavating hill.
More costs to reinforce hill.
No ability to expand (ambulance bays etc)
Rediential area
original town study did not have this as ideal site

Apparatus to be Stored in Apparatus Bay :• Rescue 2 • Engine 1 • Rescue 1 (Heavy Rescue) • S-1 Command Vehicle • F-1 • F-2 • Boat • Haz Mat • Reserve 1 • S-3 Brush • Reserve 2 • F-3 • F-4 • Light Trailer

this is the list of all the equipment that would be stored at the new station. to reduce the number of bays what equipment would people drop? and Why?.

Oh and I meant to say no drive through bays preferred by fire department

Why do I feel like the invisible abutter?

@Paul Creme- I only stick my nose into this when Combs and Reed bring up the same dribble about my families business interests in this town. Read their previous posts if you want to know why I even respond to their manure.

Get your popcorn.....this is getting good. Too bad only a handful of town residents read the "Patch".

Thank you Brad. I agree with all you said. It will not be the end of the world if it passes. I do agree the fire department would be a decent neighbor. I am worried I will have alot of trouble selling my house in the future.I hope this proposal gives the fire department what they need for now and the future. It is pretty much out of my hands at this point. I have said my peace and will move forward.