Can You Go Right on Red Off Littleton Road into the Town Center?
A question for You Ask, Patch Answers.
Welcome to You Ask, Patch Answers, a column where you send us questions about anything at all going on in town and we get them answered. Got a question? Send it to krista@patch.com.
Question: When driving east on Littleton/110 and hitting downtown, you get to one of the more interesting intersections I've ever seen. My question is, at the first intersection (just past Bertucci's, can take a right into Brickhouse Pizza), can you take a right on red? The turn is really only a slight right, but the arrows certainly turn right.
Answer: We asked this question to Police Chief James Murphy, who said there is no turn on red allowed.
He said he will speak with the DPW about posting a "No Turn On Red" sign to avoid any confusion.
If you were to re-design traffic in the center of town, how would you do it? Tell us in the comments.
Anna Bucciarelli
7:38 am on Thursday, July 19, 2012
Very confusing, more than "interesting" intersection. I don't know how it can be remedied but wish someone would come up with some solution. Any hope?
Bill Gerber
7:58 am on Thursday, July 19, 2012
Redesign? It's reasonable. There is a need for the traffic light cycle to include some way to exit from the area of Brickhouse Pizza.
Shari Perelmuter
8:39 am on Thursday, July 19, 2012
What I'm wondering, is why cars heading east on Billerica Rd, and cars heading south on Rte 4 have a green light at the same time at the intersection where they meet. It makes no sense to me.
Phil stanway
9:11 am on Thursday, July 19, 2012
For brick house I go out the back way going out the front is way to crazy to take anything but a right..
Cate Curran
9:20 am on Thursday, July 19, 2012
The driving school instructor told my son unless there is a sign prohibiting it, you may go right on red, even with a red arrow.
David DiSalvo
9:49 am on Thursday, July 19, 2012
Yes that is absolutely true. There is a No right on red sign at that intersection.
Phil stanway
9:44 am on Thursday, July 19, 2012
http://www.mass.gov/rmv/dmanual/chapter4.pdf
Steady Red :A steady red light means “stop.” Do not go until the light turns green. You can make a right turn on a red light only after you come to a complete stop and yield to pedestrians or other vehicles in your path. You may not turn on red if a NO TURN ON RED sign is posted. You can turn left on a red light when driving on a one-way street and turning left onto another one-way street. Stop and yield to pedestrians and other vehicles before turning.
Steady Red Arrow A steady red arrow means the same as a steady red, circular signal (see the preceding Steady Red section). However, it only applies to vehicles going in the direction of the arrow. The same rules for “turning on red” apply in Massachusetts. However, when driving out-of-state, this may not be true because different states have different laws.
Bryan Woods
9:44 am on Thursday, July 19, 2012
The police chief is full of $#!+. Right turn is allowed on steady red. Just read the state driver's manual and search for "red arrow".
http://www.mass.gov/rmv/dmanual/chapter4.pdf
Eileen Cilento
9:45 am on Thursday, July 19, 2012
You can take a right if there is no sign indicating "no turn on red". I have pasted the rules for red arrow which can be found In the Mass. driving manual:
Steady Red
A steady red light means “stop.” Do not go until the light turns green. You can
make a right turn on a red light only after you come to a complete stop and yield
to pedestrians or other vehicles in your path. You may not turn on red if a NO
TURN ON RED sign is posted.
You can turn left on a red light when driving on a one-way street and turning left onto
another one-way street. Stop and yield to pedestrians and other vehicles before turning.
Steady Red Arrow
A steady red arrow means the same as a steady red, circular signal (see the
preceding Steady Red section). However, it only applies to vehicles going in
the direction of the arrow. The same rules for “turning on red” apply in
Massachusetts. However, when driving out-of-state, this may not be true because different
states have different laws.
Eileen Cushing-Craig
10:03 am on Thursday, July 19, 2012
Wow, it's scary that a driving instructor would instruct a student to go through a red turning arrow. I always thought that meant "no turns until the arrow turns green."
Bryan Woods
10:07 am on Thursday, July 19, 2012
No, this is false. Very, very false. As numerous comments so far have mentioned, right turn on red arrows are absolutely allowed according the state's own driver's manual.
http://www.mass.gov/rmv/dmanual/chapter4.pdf
Eileen Cushing-Craig
10:05 am on Thursday, July 19, 2012
Ooops, looks like I'm wrong, according to the regulations Phil posted from the Registry website! No wonder they call Mass. drivers "Massholes!" LOL!
Bryan Woods
10:19 am on Thursday, July 19, 2012
This state has no shortage of nonsensical laws. I'm more concerned that the chief of police has this one wrong and is confident enough in his incorrect understanding to actually go on the record with the local press.
Brenda Crawford
11:46 am on Thursday, July 19, 2012
When the lights were first installed I was stopped for taking the right on red, but since then I have seen several patrol cars do it!
Krista Perry
2:07 pm on Thursday, July 19, 2012
I have a clarification from Police Chief James Murphy: "To clarify, there is no right turn on red allowed at this location at the red light. I mistakenly reported it as a red arrow, but realized after that it was a steady red light that controls the lane. Regardless, there is no right turn allowed on red. I'll speak with DPW about posting a "No Turn On Red" sign to avoid any confusion."
David DiSalvo
3:44 pm on Friday, July 20, 2012
The last time I went through that intersection there already was a No Turn On Red sign.
Paul
12:30 am on Saturday, July 21, 2012
Why? Honestly Krista why do you get involved? By law it is allowed so why do you go tracking down the police chief and then the DPW? Maybe you should try some good reporting for once. Everything you write is one sided.
Brad Rigby
11:28 am on Saturday, July 21, 2012
In operating a media site, Krista received a question on her "Ask the Patch" feature, went to what should be considered a pretty definitive source for the answer, and published it. That answer was challenged, so Krista went back to the source, got a correction, and published that. Seems like pretty open, even-handed, and persistent reporting to me. If Krista actually had a research department, perhaps they could have done the background research on the signage and the state driving regulations - but hers is not a large and well-funded operation, I believe. I don't see how anything about this could be considered "one-sided," though - it was a sincere and honest question submitted by a reader, and she did her job in seeking an answer. Nor do I see anything about Krista tracking down the DPW - the quote from Chief Murphy included him saying that he would speak to the DPW about a sign.
Anna Bucciarelli
6:57 am on Saturday, July 21, 2012
Paul ... quit being a pill ... Krista is merely trying to be helpful and I, for one, appreciate her efforts!
Eileen Cushing-Craig
8:52 am on Saturday, July 21, 2012
I also appreciate Krista's efforts. I find that the questions posed here are often things I have wondered about and I am glad to know the answers. Why shouldn't our elected and appointed officials be able to take a minute to explain something? And honestly, they don't seem to mind being asked.
Brad Rigby
11:16 am on Saturday, July 21, 2012
I wonder if everybody is referring to the same intersection. I didn’t think I had seen any “no turn on red” sign, but just went to check and was correct, with respect to the intersection I believe the question referred to – Littleton Rd (Rt 110), coming from the direction of Westford into Chelmsford Center, just as you travel past the Sunoco station and the driveway into Cushing Place (Brickhouse, Trinity Ambulance etc.). As of 9 AM on July 21, the signs include “Left lane must turn left,” “Stop here on red,” and “Do not block intersection,” plus a couple of bicycle-related signs. There is no sign indicating “No turn on red” at this time. One could argue that the “Stop here on red” and “Do not block intersection” signs at the Cushing Place driveway (to keep the driveway open for ambulances to exit) add up to an implied “no turn on red” – perhaps that is the basis for the Chief’s statement. If one stops before the driveway, finds no traffic, then advances into the crosshatched driveway and finds no traffic coming and turns, then arguably you are not blocking the driveway. But if you advance into the driveway area and then encounter a line of traffic you didn’t see coming, then you would find yourself sitting and blocking the driveway. If making the turn in any case is specifically prohibited, though, I think it would be far clearer what it is from a legality standpoint if there was a sign to that effect.
Brad Rigby
12:52 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
Sorry - that should have said the Shell station, not Sunoco. (Both would be yellow in color :-)
I notice there IS a "no turn on red" sign if you're traveling west, on Rt 110, at the light where you're more or less facing the 1st Parish Church, with a lane to turn "left" onto Littleton Rd/Rt 110, or turn right to go north on North Rd. Maybe this is the sign David was referring to.