How is "the potential for a Trader Joe’s or a Whole Foods is out of the question because Stop and Shop will probably not entertain the idea of a business moving in that could be considered competition" an acceptable answer? Since when does any business have the right to determine where critical resources (i.e. food) can be located in a town? Where is the BOS on this one? When they weighed in on a liquor store move, they were concerned about the impact on South Chelmsford residents.

Suppose S&S does have a legitimate claim to the use of the property. Shouldn't our visionary leaders have made the zoning for their new site conditional on keeping a grocery store in this location?

What a joke. $1000 says there is MORE vacant office space and 40B housing in this location by 2015.

Mark- I would encourage you to review the materials available for town meeting (when available) to see that the Town does have reserve accounts. Town Meeting requires 5 year forecasts for the budget so we do plan for the future.

Also, the reason the South Fire Station was closed was mostly because of the personnel costs. A 6th station would raise those costs even further since you need at least two fire fighters per station. It also would not alleviate the need to store key equipment which may need to be deployed to any part of town. I have heard discussions regarding reducing the number of stations, not increasing them as the response time is not significantly faster and the actual costs could be higher (land aquisition, construction, equipment and personnel).

Marc,
You are proposing another smaller station, and just how do yo plan on staffing this station without additional costs? Manpower, Payroll, Health care, Equipment , and general upkeep of building in addition to rehabbing the center station where newer
modern equipment wont fit? Where do you suggest we put this strategically placed smaller sixth fire station. I have no dog in this fight, but as a 76 year old veteran and retired person who has lived here for 42 years, I am tired of the continuous slamming of our town government, everyone offers suggestions with no solutions. I am living on my "entitlements" after working all my life that I get once a month and that is not "EASY STREET"
John Di

It's good to see this stuff doesn't just happen in Somerville.

http://www.wickedlocal.com/somerville/news/x1606967457/Supermarkets-refuse-to-take-over-Somerville-Star-Market-site

You have the same crowd of people who think it's ok to tell private property owners what they can do with their property. Hey at least nobody in your town is saying a property owner ought to spend millions of their own money on the off chance they might attract a business that some of the townsfolk might like to shop at.

Here's an idea, raise some money and buy the land, then you can do whatever you like with it. This is neither a public health hazard nor a violation of any existing laws. There is no such thing as a "right to buy food exactly where it's convenient for you." Maybe use the rainy day fund to but the property. Or hold a farmers market in every city owned lot every weekend. Or....and this is just a suggestion....grow up. Continuing to insist on unreasonable outcomes leaves you with an empty business (see our Star Market still vacant 4 years later). And anyone who's read "Broken Windows" knows an empty building is worse than not having the exact store you'd love to see.

Man the folks at trader joe's must laugh themselves to sleep every night. How many phone calls do they get from people like you?

The financial climate in this country requires spending with much caution. Investigate all the possibilities and consider saving a portion of the costs of the choice finally decided upon. What is the problem with a reasonable down payment and the old philosophy "don't spend what you don't have". Do not throw caution into the wind for a considered need.

Interesting Story Al thanks for posting it.

Al,

You make some great points as it relates to buying the property. Unfortunately, our town will be spending any funds it has on another fire station that voters have repeatedly voted down.

As far as my desire to have a government that activly engages private enterprise to ensure the vitality and needs of the community are met, I don't think that is far fetched. You see it every day in Boston, Newton, etc. If your hands off approach results in a town that looks like Somerville, you can have it.

Could someone tell me how the new fire station will give me tax relief? My RE taxes have gone up 200.00 a year for the last 5 years without a new fire station.

Mark I'd look again, our Mayor and the board have vigorously rezoned every inch of the city and made numerous deals with private enterprise. But that level of activity has only succeeded in producing emergency financing overrides to secure funding [ http://www.wickedlocal.com/somerville/news/business/x1703568935/Assembly-Square-developer-pushes-District-Improvement-Financing ] for infrastructure on development that won't return revenue and property owners hold the 25Mill tab as a property tax increase. But that's beside the point - the point I was making is, when we have had opportunities to replace lost businesses with new ones (i.e. Star Market was going to be rehabbed by Ocean State and they were going to provide upwards of 40 jobs to the community) our local activists helped shoot the zoning variance down because they wanted a Trader Joes and a walkable fresh food option. So, like I said - here we sit 4 years later with a hole in our community not because of a lack of involvement, but of shortsighted involvement. I live like a stone's throw form the place, I'd love TJ's too...but simply because fresh food is what's best for our bodies doesn't mean we ought to make someone give it to us. But the real point is - there's nothing you can do since they don't appear to require a zoning variance (like ours did) ...so it's moot! So I've wasted your time and you've wasted your virtual breath.

ps - nice dig a Somerville (yay, regionalism) but realize what you said - "hands off approach" - is the exact opposite of the reality we face. And it's a reality you folks seem to have too.

Word of warning: With your expensive new station and bills adding up - be wary of District Improvement Financing when it comes dancing its way to your door. It seems to be an attractive finance option in these tight times...but borrowing on future revenue is like trading on margin, especially in these times.

sincerely, the ghost of Jacob Marley

Chelmsford was such a nice town 40 years ago. Lots of open space and friendly people. Now, not so much. My two cents on this. Why do we let the buildings in Chelmsford get to such a state of disrepair. A stitch in time saves .... well, millions apparently.

Great point Will

All we heard was, "why can't they do it within the budget" So the TM does that and now we get "They should let the town vote on an override". The fire station is not functional for todays equipment, period. We need a new safer building.

Will, Chelmsford still has lots of open space ? your kidding me right ? Aside from maby Warren's property, how many bales of hay do you think we could produce on all the open space that is left ? exactly ....

OK, Now there are two Mark's with a K ... welcome Mark.

I agree with both Mark(c)'s (and Paul) on their comments.

Will, the reason why residents are voting down the improvements have nothing to do with want. It has to do with being responsible. The good residents of Chelmsford are tired of our leadership taking the easy way out. It is easy to add more police officers, build a new fire station and improve buildings when you raise taxes and give into developing all the open areas in town. The hard way to improve a town is to do it responsibly. There is no creativity here in Chelmsford. Just spend and tax.

Will, would you be in favor of buying the land from S&S and converting this to open space? Possibly add a community center like Rodenbush in Westford? Or a larger green area to congregate during the 4th of July? Open air concerts in the summer etc ...

Paul and John, I know you troll these posts. What are your thoughts on an open space in this location? Have you approached S&S to see what it would take to purchase the land? I would think if anythign deserves a "Study" it would be this. This is a once in a generation opportunity to get this right!!!

As for building better Police Stations and Fire Stations to increase property value. That is a load of .... When I left Chelmsford in 93 we had a Fire Station that was falling apart, but, we had great schools and some of the better property values in the Valley. Now we have the taj mahal of stations and we are no better off (probably worse) with several police officers collecting $150K salaries. OUT OF CONTROL.

I meant Police station not Fire station ...

Marc, I am not sure but I think everyone but Pat is in their first term.

Every year our property taxes have risen the maximum amount, which is far more than 2 1/2 %. On top of that I have to pay huge new fees for buses, sports and private services that used to be included in my taxes. I've voted for overrides and debt exclusions, some of which passed and some of which didn't.

And now Paul Cohen, the Board of Selectmen, and their Truth Squad have decided that voters don't get to decide on spending $7.5 million of taxpayer money?

You don't unite a town or win support for projects by telling everyone that they can't be part of the final decision. Each one of these clever end-runs increases voter distrust and makes it harder for even legitimately needed projects to win approval.

Hello Everyone. A few points that I would like to make. First Marc, you are incorrect that we keep voting the same people into office over and over again. Matt, Jim and I are in our first term. George is finishing his first term and Pat was elected for her second term although she lost an election in 2010 which was when her first term expired. We had a public input session last Wednesday and there were just a few questions about the center station. There is no plan that has yet been completed and when there is one there will be MANY opportunities for taxpayers to express their opinions on this issue and let their voices be heard. We do nothing in private. Everything that BOS or Town Meeting Reps do or vote on is televised. I am also available by telephone, e-mail or, during my office hours to meet and discuss these issues with any of you. Marc, I have invited you on more than one occasion to meet with me and I have exchanged countless e-mails with you. Once a plan has been presented, then we shall see if there is a controversy. We don't have a plan so, except for a Selectman candidate who wants to make this a campaign issue and has already made up HIS mind, I think that it is premature to decide the matter.

Thankyou Jon. I will await for a presented plan Thankyou for taking the time to explain the usual proceedures followed by the Board with openess and honesty.

Marc I think if you check Town Talk from last week it was started that the turn over on committees was 147% in the years Paul Cohen has been TM. I only watched it once but I remember so I might be off but I know their are always openings.

Marc the numbers are talked about on http://origin.peg.tv/pegtv_player?id=T01497&video=48160 starting at 27 minutes. Selectmen was 140% and other numbers are talked about. worth a listen.

Marc as you saw I said I was not sure so I found the reference and pointed to it. when I see something posted like "Jon If you and Phil reference my previous post I clearly indicated committees. These committees have a great impact on the way our selectmen vote i.". Just pointing at a documented source so people can check the facts. But it does show that Chelmsford has indeed a high turn over in Selectmen and committee members. Again I state no preference just point to the facts. I said I was not sure of the 147.. it was 80% and up on some of them I had to watch it up to the 27 minute mark again to double check..

Jon,

Can you comment on Stop and Shop and any interaction the town has had with the corporation? Is there an active dialog? Are there any proposals being discussed/presented for housing in this location?

I am very interested in your comments on this matter.

Mark

Just this past week there were many meetings. To name a few there was a meet and greet, BOS Public input session, Oak Hill Committee Study with the Board of health present to discuss issues. All were very informative. I encourage all to attend. Ask questions , offer suggestions...Make up you own mind instead of others doing it for you. People need to become more engaged. In business it is often said "You make the decision before someone else makes it for you." Troubling to see little attendance and when decisions are made many say they had no input. Again I encourage all to participate. If you know of a meeting tell others, spread the word, go to the town websites, check media sources, FB Chelmsford reps and residents. For that we will all be better off. Just saying!

Can we build a new fire station where the old Stop and Shop was?

Julie I think it is assesed around 8mil....I may be wrong but I thought I heard that figure

If this fire station goes within our current budget, what project goes out next for a debt exclusion - another DPW phase, perhaps? The end-run financing proposal has the same bad vibes as another controversial project that recently completed (deserved or not). I hope the upcoming fire station meetings address why the cost per sq ft has been where it's been (no comparisons to NH construction standards, please), how much it will cost to operate the new station (and will there be enough within level budget levels to keep the satellite stations open afterwards), and why the size still appears significantly larger (after significant shrinking from the initial proposal) than a simple replacement of the current station using modern standards. I agree, we desperately need a new station. Regain our trust and address some of these questions directly without Kerryesque nuancing.

I'm thinking the old Marshalls will make an excellent fire station. Apparently Marshalls is still paying rent, so the owners have no desire to sell the property. As far as having another supermarket come in to the old Stop and Shop,, no one has the right to tell the owners what to do with their property, but it would show some support for the community if they could be convinced to sell to another chain. I doubt the matter of competition will come up, as I have to drive three miles to buy food. Keep in mind the infrastruture is there in the form of freezers, etc. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity for the town to do the right thing.

Aarrrgh! A Netherlands comglomerate owns this property. A town of 34,000 residents in a New England town will not be their priority as to how to make a business decision.. What works best for the company will be the direction in which they'll move. A wonderful source of information is Joe Manganaro. the Manager of our new Stop & Shop. He knows that the Town Manager has been talking with the Stop & Shop suits to make sure the Town's wishes are heard. The Town of Chelmsford cannot BUY this property nor do I think that the corporation will donate the land to the Town unless they need some charitable right off. Let's get real people. Go meet Joe and talk to him. He is a wonderful addition to our business community.

One more thought concerning the role Stop & Shop might play in this discussion. I am sure they have been conducting market reports on their new facility. Their business opinion of this little New England town will be based in cold hard business facts. Now, have any of you on this thread participated in what those reports may say? The way we have accepted their store and how we patronize it will be taken into consideration. Have you shopped there?

Fran,

Can you con firm than the town manager has engaged stop and shop on their intentions for this propert?

Jon,
I am still waiting for your reply. I would rather you answer my questions in a public forum rather than a coffee shop.

For those who think you can not encourage a corporation on what
Is best for a community, you don't belong in public office. Not in my town anyway.

I keep goiimg back to my same point. $1000 says the plan is for office space and 40b all take note of those who support s&s.

Marjk

Mark,
Just watch the Selectmen public input Session.It covers S&S in detail (should be steaming on TV). If you had questions you should have gone and asked them. Other residents asked questions about this I would say maybe 20 people showed up to ask questions... very sad turn out. It was also covered on Town Talk. I think the message has been consistent. The town would like mixed use but can not demand someone do something with THEIR PRIVATE LAND. Even if the town could buy it for the estimated $8 million and spend a few more million to rehab it (say 10 Million) the return on investment would be poor. Could S&S sell for office and housing only... makes sense as they increase their customer base and freeze out a retail site that could compete. The town can only ask as they hold all the cards . and more important the DEED. One of the foundations of this country is land rights and that cuts two ways. In 8 years the lease is up on the big white building in the center so we might get movement in 6 or 7 years and with S&S who knows as they have deep pockets and can wait just as long as they want. I do not think this will be even addressed for a few years. I think they asked for a tax reduction as the building are empty.(not 100% sure) but if they did seems they are getting ready to mothball for a while.

I think that even if the town COULD buy the land owned by Stop & Shop, the only good use I could see for it would be as an apartment complex, or condo's, possibly with some 40B's....(at SOME point, we have to face reality...)
For Jon...glad we have you..I like what you've said and the WAY you said it..To .Will..I'd like to see you run for the BOS...you had some great comments, also, very well said. Marc and Mark..both of you also....lots of good thoughts. I've only lived in town for 37 years, so I recognize that I am not a "Townie" merely a "transplant". However, I've been here long enough to see that the voters are losing their "voice"..slowly perhaps, but it's happening just the same. That said...We gave our policemen a decent building to work in, and I feel our firefighters deserve no less. They TOO, deserve a safe, working environment....Only problem is: WHERE? Yet to be determined I guess...but no matter WHERE....I don't want to see the old one torn down. No one can tell me that the Eliopoulas' built that "barn-like" structure, planning to have their patrons enter and leave through the Bank's' one-way drives forever..no..he wants the land the fire station sits on to gain an access road/drive....he's already taken enough from us...I"d prefer to see the old fire station put to use..be it storage, or food bank, WHATEVER.....but NOT as a double driveway for a former Selectman who pulled a "fast one" and went through the "back door" to get what he wanted.

I HOPE so..and yes, I'm sure it IS a HUGE comittment. But I can tell...you will be an asset to this town and it's people.....DO keep it in mind...

It's difficult not to regret that it was ever sold to Stop and Shop in the first place.
It was apparently sold in a moment of pure lunacy!!

Yes, I'm sure that's what happened! :) LOL

LOL - "Suppose S&S does have a legitimate claim to the use of the property." Folks, they own the land stock and barrel. This is without question. So until settlement comes between the Town offerings and S&S, S&S does not have to do anythiong but keep paying the property taxes. It would be more interesting if we got a group together, took over the property by making property tax payments, oh and "UPKEEP" or MAINTAIN", the buildings which is not being done for 7 years in behalf of the town to take the land and buildings back just like I seen in the newest news seen in Florida and the multi-million dollar mansion episode going on.